Curse

A11Eur0 · Nov 20, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

dazed only works if the caster is under constant attack from more than one player...otherwise the caster can cast anything it wants in between hits if it can avoid or fast cast. 1/4 second skills are very hard to interrupt even with daze...you need a preemptive strike for that like blackout, migraine or shame/guilt.

Traveller · Nov 20, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Combine the mesmer PvE skills Ether Nightmare and Cry of Pain for a nice AoE damage and degen effect and maybe Necrosis or Ebon Battle standard of Honor for a party-wide damage-boost. I'm sure everyone knows the potential of PvE skills - sure, any class can use 'em, but how many of us have maxed allegiance titles of any kind? With Sig of Illusions you can max the efficiency, and no other class than a mesmer can fully utilize SoI:s power.

Now, I reckon mesmers aren't the most powerful class in pure DPS sense, but I've been using SoI as I've gone along GW:EN and it sure is fun to play.

darkdreamr · Nov 20, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Someone else said it best. An intelligent mesmer can really pick apart an opposing defense, through any number of means. The effects are mostly indirect but mesmers can prevent damage/key negative effects as well as provide significant offense. It's about doing things like interrupting that chilblains that is going to remove the team's aegis. It's about preventing enemy monks from casting so your party can kill quickly. And sometimes it's about spreading degen or spiking down an elementalist in seconds.

The same things that make mesmers good in pvp make them good in pve, but it takes effort (as well as experience and a little bit of skill). Most people (it seems) are content to roll through pve with spiteful spirit, meteor shower, a warrior and a monk, or now, 3 ursans and a monk. But despite all the debates about efficiency, I personally believe that monks are the only class which vastly outperform all the others at what they do (because of divine favor). I consider mesmers to be at least on par with other classes in a variety of roles, with the added bonus that they're fun to play.

I know I won't convince the naysayers, but I hope to convince the people who aren't sure, so that the useless mesmer stereotype will disappear. here's another tip: assassin's aren't worthless in pve either. A skilled assassin with the right build can be an asset, and can even provide party defense too with the right secondary. A lot of it comes down to the person behind the bar. There may be less margin for error with mesmers and assassins than with warriors and elementalists, but that doesn't mean one class is always better than another.

agrios · Nov 20, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Mesmers are a unique class, they have a longer learning curve. And they have fewer AoE options than other jobs. So most people dont even try to play them.

Thats why there are so few.

But I have a Domination mez that is very fun to play with.

Full Metal X · Nov 20, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Mesmers have [skill]Hex Eater Vortex[/skill] and [skill]energy surge[/skill] and maybe [skill]shatter hex[/skill] that really fit into the pve mindset (2 of which are conditional) which is AOE damage owns. You don't need need shutdown in PvE except for the stray caster boss, in which you bring BHA.

Tarkin · Nov 20, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Interrupts are ranger job...
[skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill][skill]Screaming Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill]
But why we cant be friends...
[skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill]

Advanced

[skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill][skill]Screaming Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill] volley

[skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill]Shrinking Armor[skill]Shatter Delusions[/skill]

holababe · Nov 20, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I've not had issues getting into teams and I personally feel i've been quite effective with my newbie build and limited skills. So why so few/none at all?

You may indeed have been effective, but unfortunately the wider GW population doesn't consider them to be necessary to succeed in PvE.
And that's a valid point. I've only ever had a mesmer in my group once (Raisu Palace). Despite finishing the mission easily, I have finished the vast majority of all 4 games without one.

Bryant Again · Nov 20, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I'd say that there aren't a whole lot to begin with because the class description isn't as appealing, and perhaps a little less clear, as compared to others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Site

"Mesmers are the mental masters of illusion, control, and domination, subverting an enemy's Energy for their own purposes and supporting the entire party in battle with powerful, mind-bending magic."

The look can also turn people off a bit.

Edit: Shanaeri, are you saying that Mesmers are much more better off because of the updates in GW:EN, because they exceed only in GW:EN areas, or other?

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 20, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Rubbish and hogwash. Any build that does not use the increased attack speed in HM to kill foes faster is playing sub-optimally. Attackers should be neutralized with weakening and blindness, neither being a mesmer's forte. The only casters that truly need to be shut down are AoE nukers or the occasionaly dual monk group, and these are rare enough to be counted on one hand across all three campaigns and an expansion. Every other caster should be punished with SS, SV, and the occasional well-placed Pain Inverter.

Shutdown is for chumps.

Thats a very simplistic view IMHO. Part of the art of playing mesmer is knowing within fractions of a second whether to interupt or to let the action go ahead. Often the difference between a good player and exceptional one is becuase the exceptional ones knows instinctivley when to do what action to what target, they know what skill does what and what mobs have what build, they can anticipate the next move and stop it without thinking. It's a whole different and equally valid way to play.

It's not just AoE casters that need to be shut down, warders, necros and some rits can wreck havoc if left alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I am having a very, very, very hard time believing that. Skills, numbers, something to back up this claim? Everything I know a mesmer is capable of doing, I know of another profession that can do the job much better. Mesmer's don't have AoE weakness, capable of inflicting daze, doing more single target damage than a warrior (unless maybe that warrior is heavily shut down), blowing up mobs with AoE, providing mass party buffs, or keeping the party alive.

When I do have a mesmer, it's usually stripping enchantments or cleaning hexes so the physicals can kill stuff. But really I can get by without it.

I think maybe you are looking at the role of the mesmer in the wrong way. When people have asked me what does a mesmer *do* in a PvE team one of the analogies I use is that it is used to fill in the spaces left in the build synegy of the rest of the team. Think of music, typically one has the lyrics, melody and the bridge. Take one away and the whole things falls apart, and yet people focus mainly on the lyrics and the melody. Try listening to any song with no bridge. It gets the job done in a shorter time but is the less for it. The mesmer is the bridge.

Using your melee example above. A mesmer with ineptitude and epidemic blinds the front line hitting on the warrior, the necro casts SS and reckless on the now useless melee front line. In the mean time the mesmer is on the ele or monk stopping the blind being removed, preventing a res, removing enchants or simply shutting down the monks whole heal line. The net effect is that the mesmer has just relieved a whole lot of pressure on the team and although gone unnoticed is acting as 'the bridge' for the entire build. Now, most engagements are pretty short and brutal but non the less the effects are there. As i'm sure you know it's pressure that causes team wipes not spikes in damage. By removing some of that pressure the likelyhood of team wipe is reduced.

When played well, playing mesmer feels like one is dancing through the mobs, forcing them to play to the tune of the overall team build. It's in this space the mesmer excells. It's the subtlty of Mozart to the thrash metal of holy trinity PvE which is not a like for like comparision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Edit: Shanaeri, are you saying that Mesmers are much more better off because of the updates in GW:EN, because they exceed only in GW:EN areas, or other?

Both. Gwen mobs are some of the most well balanced in the game, and thus allows a mesmer to shine. They have opportunity to shine outside of Gwen, not only because of some of the new 'proper' skills, but by the way they can dovetail with(like em or love em) the new PvE skills

Skuld · Nov 20, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Because mesmers are baaed

Morgenstern · Nov 20, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Because they are out there in the instances OWNING!

Bryant Again · Nov 20, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Both. Gwen mobs are some of the most well balanced in the game, and thus allows a mesmer to shine. They have opportunity to shine outside of Gwen, not only because of some of the new 'proper' skills, but by the way they can dovetail with(like em or love em) the new PvE skills

So Mesmers could still use some work?

GW:EN is still a very small fraction of the PvE world. While yes it's awesome that Mesmers are able to do much better against them, there's still the other 80% of the GW universe that can go against them.

Saying "this class shines because of the PvE skills" is not really a good thing, because a profession should be able to excel just as well as any other profession without them.

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I think mesmers are a great class and I often bring Gwen along, but I don't play my mesmer so much anymore. Usually it's because I can't always find a build that works well and I enjoy playing. I'm not great with interrupts for a number of reasons and I can't ever decide if I'd rather go illusion-degen or something like E-surge :\ and hex domination. Sometimes it's easier to just put 10-12 points into healing prayers and play a wannabe monk. I usually will consider it anyways because LoD is better than most of the mesmer elites IMO.

Painbringer · Nov 20, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Because mesmers are baaed

You do mean Bad Arse Right?

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 20, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So Mesmers could still use some work?

GW:EN is still a very small fraction of the PvE world. While yes it's awesome that Mesmers are able to do much better against them, there's still the other 80% of the GW universe that can go against them.

Saying "this class shines because of the PvE skills" is not really a good thing, because a profession should be able to excel just as well as any other profession without them.

Please don't take half of what I wrote and use it out of context, re-read the rest of my post above and hopefully it'll show the full picture.

Yichi · Nov 20, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

You do mean Bad Arse Right?

no... 12 chars

Lord Sojar · Nov 20, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

LOL @ OP.

Me/X with Cry of Pain + Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare = GG PvE. Mesmers can out damage an Ele if played correctly. Mesmers outclass Assassins, Paragons, and even Rits in PvE. Necros have even become less popular vs Mesmers, especially in HM because of the SOI buffs. GG.

Armor ignoring Chaos damage > Elemental Damage or Physical Damage. Throw Pain Inverter in for fun.

street peddler · Nov 20, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

wishful thinking^

ensoriki · Nov 20, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Mesmers have no AOE

Common fact PVE..Loves AOE.

DoT works good too!

AOE DOT is great

AOE DOT that does even more damage to a Single target is great

AOE DOT PBAOE is nice too!

Now which of these the mesmer have?

DOT?....you mean degen? Lame.

Fevered dream mesmers are fun tho.

Yichi · Nov 20, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Mesmers have no AOE

Common fact PVE..Loves AOE.

DoT works good too!

AOE DOT is great

AOE DOT that does even more damage to a Single target is great

AOE DOT PBAOE is nice too!

Now which of these the mesmer have?

DOT?....you mean degen? Lame.

Fevered dream mesmers are fun tho.

You know very little about Mesmer skills then....